super degen = good? - Guild Wars Forums

Mr Jazzy · Jun 02, 2005, 04:23 AM // 04:23

hello im planning on building a super degen necromancer

i need help on what skills to get / attributes and second profession

my second profession is already an E (ahh mistake!), and i was kicking myself for not choosing Me (conjure phantasm)

HELP APPRECIATED!!

Sira · Jun 02, 2005, 04:44 AM // 04:44

I think there is a limit to degeneration (i think its 10...someone correct me if im wrong please) so you may want to keep that in mind when setting up your bar...as for choosing mes as a secondary it really doesnt matter....necros have enough degen spells without the need for mesmer...not to mention ele's get fire...short degen but still sweet

Crackerjak · Jun 02, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

There is a limit of -10 health degen!?! fook

Thanato · Jun 02, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

despite that, rotting flesh and conjure phantasm together will get you 9 or 10 pips of degen

Spartan2 · Jun 02, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

If you can couple a major degen and some nice steal health or quick cast high damage spells, the build could be pretty nice.

Sira · Jun 02, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47

if full blood speced life transfer and life siphon will acheive the same 10 pips degen

Nlandge · Jun 02, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44

life tranfer = god of PvE

Mercury Angel · Jun 02, 2005, 09:37 AM // 09:37

At the very least, Degeneration damage is reliable and doesn't trigger most defensive abilities. You can't Protective Spirit, Mark of Protection, Life Bond, Reversal of Fortune, Healing Hands, etc. to lessen its effects, and even if they do get a DoT heal, you can drop another different DoT on them.

Blood/Curses should cover you for efficient DoT'ing, + extra effects when DoT alone isn't sufficient. If you can push yourself to 15 in each attribute, through Awaken the Blood + inherent headgear bonus + a minor rune in one of the attributes (13/13 without AtB), or major/superior runes, then the variable degeneration hexes hit the 4 arrows mark.

-=Blood Magic=-
Primary Degeneration -
Life Siphon: 4 degen for the opponent, 4 regen for yourself, and somewhere around 24-25 seconds duration, for about 200 health exchanged over time.
Life Transfer {E}: ~12 seconds of 8 degeneration, it's about the same effect of Life Siphon, but faster acting, with a longer recharge. Toss-up, IMO. In a degeneration focused build, attaining 10 degeneration is already going to be simple enough.

Support -
Well of Blood: 20 seconds of 6 regeneration in the area. 10 regeneration if you've got life siphon running as well, and that's certainly not going to be unappreciated by allies in the radius.

Other -
Vampiric Gaze + Vampiric Touch: Depending on your personal preference for cost, recharge time, and distance you like to maintain from the enemy, they steal 60 and 74 life respectively at 15 blood.
Strip Enchantment: 120 health and an enchantment removed. Only got 10 degen on the foe and they null most of it with healing breeze? It's off, and you just got a decent healing in the process.
Mark of Subversion: Interrupt a support spell and steal 92 life. Sometimes it's more effective to prevent things than deal with them when they're already up.
Offering of Blood: Can't say it's a favourite of mine, but odds are, with monks and mesmers on your team, and most of your skills from blood healing you as well as doing damage (meaning you most likely won't need heals), if you're finding yourself having energy management problems, then this'll yield 15 energy (actually 20, but it costs 5 to use) every 15 seconds.
Blood is Power {E}: If nothing else, Blood is Power will not only be gain you the appreciation of who you use it on, especially a monk with resource management issues, but if they're of the opposite gender, and even the same, I can assure you, they'll gain a little love for you :P
Soul Leech {E}: Necro's response to backfire. Not as much damage, but if you count the net exchange in HP, it's got about the same punch for the attribute level. A little discouragement from spell usage is always a welcome thing, not to mention it results in healing. It's got a 5 second shorter recharge time, which is a + I'd imagine.

-=Curses=-

Primary Degeneration:
Faintheartedness - Slowed attack speed and 35 seconds of 4 degeneration. Only a 5 second recharge time, what's not to like?
Parasitic Bond - 1 degeneration, and it'll never go up. 5 energy for 120 healing in 20 seconds, and 40 DoT damage, not all that impressive. It's cheap, quick to cast and recharge, though, and if you've already got a lot of degeneration, it might be all you need to hit the cap.
Suffering - AoE degeneration of 2 for 30 seconds. Pretty expensive and slow to recast, but it does recycle faster than the duration, so it can't be all bad. The degeneration still isn't impressive, yet with Siphon+Faintheartedness+Parasitic Bond in accompaniement, you've hit 10 degeneration.
Wither {E} - 35 seconds of health and energy degeneration 2. If you're finding degeneration alone isn't cutting it, perhaps a little control through energy loss would help. Unfortunately, the entire spell ends if the opponent's energy hits 0.

Other (there're no ally cast curses, so skip support :P)-
Chillbains + Plague Touch combo : PbAoE single enchantment removal, damage, and poison on the target. A tad overly expensive. Signet of Agony+Plague Touch might be more preferable.
Feast of Corruption {E} : You've hex'd the living daylights out of everyone, and with this, you can deal a little direct damage and give a little more healing to yourself. 80 AoE damage + 40 life steal to each nearby foe that is hex'd.
Enfeeble/Enfeebling Blood : A little extra damage control, won't actually help the build directly in any way.
Desecrate Enchantments : 60 base damage, +20 for each enchantment they wear. It's more direct AoE damage, and a little enchantment discouragement, similar to Feast of Corruption.
Insidious Parasite : Necro's reply to Empathy. 20 seconds, 20 health stolen whenever they hit with an attack. Best NOT used in conjunction with faintheartedness, otherwise you lose part of the effect. Stacking it with Enfeeble would be a much wiser choice.
Malaise : More energy control. Same conditions as wither, also gives you health degeneration of 2. Only 2 seconds recharge, so you should be able to place it on all enemy casters. Just make sure if you do, you're keeping yourself healed enough to keep pace with the degen.
Rend Enchantments : One of very few mass enchantment removals. Because you can only tell that a person is enchanted, and not what or how many enchantments they have, be wary. If they super stack them, and you remove 8, you're going to take 320 damage.
Rigor Mortis : Nulls Guardian and other defensive effects that block/evade on a percentage. Won't help you one bit, like enfeeble, but instead helps the party in getting more direct damage on the target.
Spiteful Spirit {E}: Minor annoying pain in the butt, no matter what they do, for 20 seconds, they cause 35 damage to themself and nearby allies. Every attack, hit or miss, every spell, every signet ring, nature ritual, whatever. ANYTHING (except moving around and twiddling their thumbs and toes) = damage. It's not enough to be devastating, but considering the theme of the build is DoT, obviously causing massive spike damage isn't the game plan. It should be a nice supplement to the DoT, and is pretty unconditional. Casters and physical attackers alike will all suffer from it, and cause any nearby allies to suffer as well.
Lingering Curse {E} and/or Defile Flesh : Both reduce the effectiveness of healing, and the first is total enchantment removal as well. Less healing = harder to fight the degeneration.

-=Death Magic (if you've invested some points in it as well)=-
Well of Suffering : AoE degeneration, decent amount with enough points in it. Requires a corpse though.
Rotting Flesh/Tainted Flesh {E} : Careful, as these inflict disease, which all too often infects everybody on both teams. However, that's 4 more degeneration, and it's ease of spreading is a good thing for getting degeneration on the enemy team. A condition instead of a hex is a nice change, and will require different removal procedures.

Other -
Deathly Swarm : More direct damage.
Malign Intervention : Reduction in healing on the target. If someone in your group has Verata's Gaze or Aura, it's a free extra minion.
Death Nova/Putrid Explosion : More direct damage, although conditional. Death Nova requires a little timing, Putrid Explosion is a good quick use of a corpse, which also denies the use of it to other necromancers.
Soul Feast : More corpse denial and some good healing. Once again won't actually directly help the build, and there're many other sources of healing, but it's something to consider in the control/support aspect.
Well of the Profane : AoE mass enchantment removal. Anyone caught by it or anyone that accidentally steps into it loses all enchantments instantly. Anybody foolish enough to stand in it becomes unable to have enchantments cast on them. Need 5 ranks in death magic to remove the chance of failure. Which is really all you need, and you get 12 seconds duration out of the bargain. I doubt they'll stand in it beyond that.

Hope the list and explanations of why I chose those skills as feasible contributions for a DoT build helps.

A standalone build that should be somewhat easy to construct would be:

Necromancer
Blood - 12 (+1)
Curses - 12 (+1)
Soul Reaping - 3

Assuming a +1 minor rune and +1 inherent bonus on blood and curses, doesn't really matter which is which. Of course, the more the merrier, this is just the absolute minimum.

Awaken the Blood : 44 seconds of +2 blood and curses. No sacrafice skills, so bleh

. [45/1/10]
Life Siphon : 24 seconds of 4 degen on the target, and 4 regen on yourself. [2/2/10]
Faintheartedness: For 35 seconds, target attacks more slowly and suffers 4 degeneration. [5/1/10]
Parasitic Bond: For 20 seconds, target suffers from 1 degeneration. When Parasitic Bond ends, you are healed 120. [2/1/5]
Spiteful Spirit {E} : For 20 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or uses a skill, that foe and all adjacent foes take 35 shadow damage. [10/2/15]
Strip Enchantment : Remove 1 enchantment from target foe. If an enchantment was removed, you are healed for 120. [20/1/10]

Vampiric Gaze : Steal 60 health from target foe. [5/1/10]
or
Mark of Subversion : For the next 10 seconds, the next time target foe casts a spell on an ally, that spell fails and you steal 92 health from them. [20/2/10]

* Both offer a little direct damage. One is reactive, cancels a support spell they cast, and offers a little more punch for the cost. However, with a 20 second recharge, you won't be using it more often. Considering the lack of energy management, Mark of Subversion is a good choice. If they try to heal, it'll cancel it, heal you, and damage them, all at once. If they stand there and twiddle their thumbs and toes because of Spiteful Spirit though, then it'll be wasted. Vampiric Gaze offers damage you can do unconditionally. Quick to use and recharge, but pricey.

Resurrection Signet : Resurrect target ally with 100% Health and 20% Energy. [-/3/0]

The strategy is to kill a foe and/or render them useless through a combination of degeneration and spiteful spirit. If they do nothing, they still suffer damage. If they do something, they suffer even more, not to mention cause damage to nearby allies. All spell damage inherently ignores defence, so the strategy should be useful against most opponents.
Starting on a single target, you want to stack Life Siphon, Faintheartedness, and Spiteful Spirit on first, although not necessarily in that order. However, put Parasitic Bond on last, to ensure that single hex removal doesn't catch the better ones. Then you can stand there and attack with your wand/staff, and they'll be hardpressed to do much. Unless they remove the hexes, they'll be taking 18 damage per second, and 35 damage every time they perform an action. High spike damage casters won't be bothered much, as they can outdamage the effects of the hexes, and slow attacks won't affect spells. You'll just have to hope you can survive with the 4 regeneration and parasitic bond effect when it ends, and eat enchantments when necessary to recover health. Similar effect for high spike damage warriors, except they suffer slowed attacking, giving the degeneration more time to act, and you more time to heal.
Spiteful Spirit pretty much just nulls the effect of divine favour for monks, but every bit counts I'd imagine.

Might just copy and paste this for critique in The Campfire, and put a link in here instead.

Ah well, hope you're inspired to create your own unique deadly build. Keep in mind, limiting yourself to necro skills isn't required, and you can change secondaries later on in the game. If you decide you want Poison Arrow or Apply Poison as a source of degeneration, or perhaps Mark of Rodgort for burning from elementalist and a fire weapon with conjure flame to supplement your degenerations (both to trigger the burning condition and cause direct damage), then go for it. There're a lot of different methods to accomplishing your goal.

Jun 02, 2005, 04:23 AM // 04:23	#1
Mr Jazzy Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cali Guild: Mending For The [win] Profession: W/A	super degen = good? hello im planning on building a super degen necromancer i need help on what skills to get / attributes and second profession my second profession is already an E (ahh mistake!), and i was kicking myself for not choosing Me (conjure phantasm) HELP APPRECIATED!!

Jun 02, 2005, 04:44 AM // 04:44	#2
Sira Academy Page Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Clan of the Black Rose Profession: N/W	I think there is a limit to degeneration (i think its 10...someone correct me if im wrong please) so you may want to keep that in mind when setting up your bar...as for choosing mes as a secondary it really doesnt matter....necros have enough degen spells without the need for mesmer...not to mention ele's get fire...short degen but still sweet

Jun 02, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24	#3
Crackerjak Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	There is a limit of -10 health degen!?! fook

Jun 02, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37	#4
Thanato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Quebec, Canada Guild: Followers of the Faith Profession: R/Me	despite that, rotting flesh and conjure phantasm together will get you 9 or 10 pips of degen

Jun 02, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42	#5
Spartan2 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Location: The Intarweb Guild: Wrath of Nature [WoN] Profession: E/Mo	If you can couple a major degen and some nice steal health or quick cast high damage spells, the build could be pretty nice.

Jun 02, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47	#6
Sira Academy Page Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Clan of the Black Rose Profession: N/W	if full blood speced life transfer and life siphon will acheive the same 10 pips degen

Jun 02, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44	#7
Nlandge Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PHX,Arizona Guild: Dragon Blood Profession: Mo/N	life tranfer = god of PvE

Jun 02, 2005, 09:37 AM // 09:37	#8
Mercury Angel Avatar of Gwen Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wandering my own road.	At the very least, Degeneration damage is reliable and doesn't trigger most defensive abilities. You can't Protective Spirit, Mark of Protection, Life Bond, Reversal of Fortune, Healing Hands, etc. to lessen its effects, and even if they do get a DoT heal, you can drop another different DoT on them. Blood/Curses should cover you for efficient DoT'ing, + extra effects when DoT alone isn't sufficient. If you can push yourself to 15 in each attribute, through Awaken the Blood + inherent headgear bonus + a minor rune in one of the attributes (13/13 without AtB), or major/superior runes, then the variable degeneration hexes hit the 4 arrows mark. -=Blood Magic=- Primary Degeneration - Life Siphon: 4 degen for the opponent, 4 regen for yourself, and somewhere around 24-25 seconds duration, for about 200 health exchanged over time. Life Transfer {E}: ~12 seconds of 8 degeneration, it's about the same effect of Life Siphon, but faster acting, with a longer recharge. Toss-up, IMO. In a degeneration focused build, attaining 10 degeneration is already going to be simple enough. Support - Well of Blood: 20 seconds of 6 regeneration in the area. 10 regeneration if you've got life siphon running as well, and that's certainly not going to be unappreciated by allies in the radius. Other - Vampiric Gaze + Vampiric Touch: Depending on your personal preference for cost, recharge time, and distance you like to maintain from the enemy, they steal 60 and 74 life respectively at 15 blood. Strip Enchantment: 120 health and an enchantment removed. Only got 10 degen on the foe and they null most of it with healing breeze? It's off, and you just got a decent healing in the process. Mark of Subversion: Interrupt a support spell and steal 92 life. Sometimes it's more effective to prevent things than deal with them when they're already up. Offering of Blood: Can't say it's a favourite of mine, but odds are, with monks and mesmers on your team, and most of your skills from blood healing you as well as doing damage (meaning you most likely won't need heals), if you're finding yourself having energy management problems, then this'll yield 15 energy (actually 20, but it costs 5 to use) every 15 seconds. Blood is Power {E}: If nothing else, Blood is Power will not only be gain you the appreciation of who you use it on, especially a monk with resource management issues, but if they're of the opposite gender, and even the same, I can assure you, they'll gain a little love for you :P Soul Leech {E}: Necro's response to backfire. Not as much damage, but if you count the net exchange in HP, it's got about the same punch for the attribute level. A little discouragement from spell usage is always a welcome thing, not to mention it results in healing. It's got a 5 second shorter recharge time, which is a + I'd imagine. -=Curses=- Primary Degeneration: Faintheartedness - Slowed attack speed and 35 seconds of 4 degeneration. Only a 5 second recharge time, what's not to like? Parasitic Bond - 1 degeneration, and it'll never go up. 5 energy for 120 healing in 20 seconds, and 40 DoT damage, not all that impressive. It's cheap, quick to cast and recharge, though, and if you've already got a lot of degeneration, it might be all you need to hit the cap. Suffering - AoE degeneration of 2 for 30 seconds. Pretty expensive and slow to recast, but it does recycle faster than the duration, so it can't be all bad. The degeneration still isn't impressive, yet with Siphon+Faintheartedness+Parasitic Bond in accompaniement, you've hit 10 degeneration. Wither {E} - 35 seconds of health and energy degeneration 2. If you're finding degeneration alone isn't cutting it, perhaps a little control through energy loss would help. Unfortunately, the entire spell ends if the opponent's energy hits 0. Other (there're no ally cast curses, so skip support :P)- Chillbains + Plague Touch combo : PbAoE single enchantment removal, damage, and poison on the target. A tad overly expensive. Signet of Agony+Plague Touch might be more preferable. Feast of Corruption {E} : You've hex'd the living daylights out of everyone, and with this, you can deal a little direct damage and give a little more healing to yourself. 80 AoE damage + 40 life steal to each nearby foe that is hex'd. Enfeeble/Enfeebling Blood : A little extra damage control, won't actually help the build directly in any way. Desecrate Enchantments : 60 base damage, +20 for each enchantment they wear. It's more direct AoE damage, and a little enchantment discouragement, similar to Feast of Corruption. Insidious Parasite : Necro's reply to Empathy. 20 seconds, 20 health stolen whenever they hit with an attack. Best NOT used in conjunction with faintheartedness, otherwise you lose part of the effect. Stacking it with Enfeeble would be a much wiser choice. Malaise : More energy control. Same conditions as wither, also gives you health degeneration of 2. Only 2 seconds recharge, so you should be able to place it on all enemy casters. Just make sure if you do, you're keeping yourself healed enough to keep pace with the degen. Rend Enchantments : One of very few mass enchantment removals. Because you can only tell that a person is enchanted, and not what or how many enchantments they have, be wary. If they super stack them, and you remove 8, you're going to take 320 damage. Rigor Mortis : Nulls Guardian and other defensive effects that block/evade on a percentage. Won't help you one bit, like enfeeble, but instead helps the party in getting more direct damage on the target. Spiteful Spirit {E}: Minor annoying pain in the butt, no matter what they do, for 20 seconds, they cause 35 damage to themself and nearby allies. Every attack, hit or miss, every spell, every signet ring, nature ritual, whatever. ANYTHING (except moving around and twiddling their thumbs and toes) = damage. It's not enough to be devastating, but considering the theme of the build is DoT, obviously causing massive spike damage isn't the game plan. It should be a nice supplement to the DoT, and is pretty unconditional. Casters and physical attackers alike will all suffer from it, and cause any nearby allies to suffer as well. Lingering Curse {E} and/or Defile Flesh : Both reduce the effectiveness of healing, and the first is total enchantment removal as well. Less healing = harder to fight the degeneration. -=Death Magic (if you've invested some points in it as well)=- Well of Suffering : AoE degeneration, decent amount with enough points in it. Requires a corpse though. Rotting Flesh/Tainted Flesh {E} : Careful, as these inflict disease, which all too often infects everybody on both teams. However, that's 4 more degeneration, and it's ease of spreading is a good thing for getting degeneration on the enemy team. A condition instead of a hex is a nice change, and will require different removal procedures. Other - Deathly Swarm : More direct damage. Malign Intervention : Reduction in healing on the target. If someone in your group has Verata's Gaze or Aura, it's a free extra minion. Death Nova/Putrid Explosion : More direct damage, although conditional. Death Nova requires a little timing, Putrid Explosion is a good quick use of a corpse, which also denies the use of it to other necromancers. Soul Feast : More corpse denial and some good healing. Once again won't actually directly help the build, and there're many other sources of healing, but it's something to consider in the control/support aspect. Well of the Profane : AoE mass enchantment removal. Anyone caught by it or anyone that accidentally steps into it loses all enchantments instantly. Anybody foolish enough to stand in it becomes unable to have enchantments cast on them. Need 5 ranks in death magic to remove the chance of failure. Which is really all you need, and you get 12 seconds duration out of the bargain. I doubt they'll stand in it beyond that. Hope the list and explanations of why I chose those skills as feasible contributions for a DoT build helps. A standalone build that should be somewhat easy to construct would be: Necromancer Blood - 12 (+1) Curses - 12 (+1) Soul Reaping - 3 Assuming a +1 minor rune and +1 inherent bonus on blood and curses, doesn't really matter which is which. Of course, the more the merrier, this is just the absolute minimum. Awaken the Blood : 44 seconds of +2 blood and curses. No sacrafice skills, so bleh . [45/1/10] Life Siphon : 24 seconds of 4 degen on the target, and 4 regen on yourself. [2/2/10] Faintheartedness: For 35 seconds, target attacks more slowly and suffers 4 degeneration. [5/1/10] Parasitic Bond: For 20 seconds, target suffers from 1 degeneration. When Parasitic Bond ends, you are healed 120. [2/1/5] Spiteful Spirit {E} : For 20 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or uses a skill, that foe and all adjacent foes take 35 shadow damage. [10/2/15] Strip Enchantment : Remove 1 enchantment from target foe. If an enchantment was removed, you are healed for 120. [20/1/10] Vampiric Gaze : Steal 60 health from target foe. [5/1/10] or Mark of Subversion : For the next 10 seconds, the next time target foe casts a spell on an ally, that spell fails and you steal 92 health from them. [20/2/10] * Both offer a little direct damage. One is reactive, cancels a support spell they cast, and offers a little more punch for the cost. However, with a 20 second recharge, you won't be using it more often. Considering the lack of energy management, Mark of Subversion is a good choice. If they try to heal, it'll cancel it, heal you, and damage them, all at once. If they stand there and twiddle their thumbs and toes because of Spiteful Spirit though, then it'll be wasted. Vampiric Gaze offers damage you can do unconditionally. Quick to use and recharge, but pricey. Resurrection Signet : Resurrect target ally with 100% Health and 20% Energy. [-/3/0] The strategy is to kill a foe and/or render them useless through a combination of degeneration and spiteful spirit. If they do nothing, they still suffer damage. If they do something, they suffer even more, not to mention cause damage to nearby allies. All spell damage inherently ignores defence, so the strategy should be useful against most opponents. Starting on a single target, you want to stack Life Siphon, Faintheartedness, and Spiteful Spirit on first, although not necessarily in that order. However, put Parasitic Bond on last, to ensure that single hex removal doesn't catch the better ones. Then you can stand there and attack with your wand/staff, and they'll be hardpressed to do much. Unless they remove the hexes, they'll be taking 18 damage per second, and 35 damage every time they perform an action. High spike damage casters won't be bothered much, as they can outdamage the effects of the hexes, and slow attacks won't affect spells. You'll just have to hope you can survive with the 4 regeneration and parasitic bond effect when it ends, and eat enchantments when necessary to recover health. Similar effect for high spike damage warriors, except they suffer slowed attacking, giving the degeneration more time to act, and you more time to heal. Spiteful Spirit pretty much just nulls the effect of divine favour for monks, but every bit counts I'd imagine. Might just copy and paste this for critique in The Campfire, and put a link in here instead. Ah well, hope you're inspired to create your own unique deadly build. Keep in mind, limiting yourself to necro skills isn't required, and you can change secondaries later on in the game. If you decide you want Poison Arrow or Apply Poison as a source of degeneration, or perhaps Mark of Rodgort for burning from elementalist and a fire weapon with conjure flame to supplement your degenerations (both to trigger the burning condition and cause direct damage), then go for it. There're a lot of different methods to accomplishing your goal.